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sethrakEdit: Quick research online, inbetween kicking ass on my coursework ( :D ), shows that the questions re: VAT/national sales tax were improperly formed, because they are two different things, despite being used interchangeably by Davner during our discussion. Admittedly, I used them interchangeably as well, but that was based on his usage, as I hadn't previously heard much on the topic.
I still think the tax as described, regardless of nomenclature, is a bad idea, but I'll pester y'all to help me with suggested sources when I can form the question properly.
***
I have been hitting mute during commercial breaks one hell of a lot this weekend, and will probably be doing it more and more between now and Election Day. Doesn't matter which side's ads are airing. I'm already sick of them. I already know I'm voting Democrat in every elected office for which I am elegible to do so. (I don't do straight-party-ticket, but there aren't any reasonable Republicans running in my area right now.) And I already know I'm voting HELL NO on Amendments 60, 61, and proposition 101. They're changes to the tax code, and to how local and state government can borrow money, which on the surface sound like "Yay, lower tax bill!". But come out to "Boo, sharp decreases in the main funding source for important services, and in the ability of government to take on ANY kind of loan, such as those for major capital improvements to the water supply, AND causing land owned by utilities to be subject to property tax, which will get passed on to us as higher utility rates."
I also know I am voting HELL NO on the granting personhood to fertilized eggs amendment. Same thing was attempted a few years before we moved here, and got soundly defeated then. If I had the money in my bank account, I'd be throwing it at Planned Parenthood's get out the vote efforts. Sigh.
Anyway. The incessant ads, frequently misleading, always annoying, are not doing anything to alter my vote. Reading the local paper's analysis of various issues did. Clearer, cleaner, and with less vitriol or droning voice saying "Candidate Smith: Bad for X. Bad for Y. And BAD for Region Candidate Seeks to Represent". The mute button is one of humanity's more useful inventions.
One of the subjects harped on most in the Colorado Senate race is Ken Buck's support for the Value Added Tax, which is a proposed national sales tax of 23%.
Yes, that's not a typo. 23%.
Once we're all done clutching our wallets.... Davner is fond of complaining that the ads fail to mention the proposed VAT is intended to replace federal income tax, not come in addition to it. (Which is true, they make no mention of this.) He thinks, if used that way, it would be awesome, and would eliminate the need for the IRS. He says if it were implemented as desired by those Democrats who propose it, it would be on top of all other taxation, and be an abomination. But he likes the idea of not having to spend four hours doing our taxes online, and thinks it would fund the federal government adequately without unnecessary spending on things like the IRS.
So. Three questions.
1) Are there, in fact, Democrats pushing for a national VAT? If so, are they intending it to be an extra tax, rather than a replacement tax? For that matter, are Republicans really intending to use it solely as a replacement tax?
2) Would this really obviate the need for the IRS?
My gut says no. The government would need some sort of agency to collect and account for all the money, just as with federal income tax. Davner insists this would not be true, because it would be collected at the time of every elegible purchase, and done by the local businesses, and the government wouldn't need to get involved. I pointed out that back in VA, the local tv stations did regular investigations to see if local businesses were correctly administering local sales taxes, and contacting the stores to complain if they weren't. (Food items not elegible for sales tax were the chief culprits.) Also, the local government had a branch specifically designed to monitor sales tax administration by businesses.
It seems clear to me that the federal government would also need to monitor businesses, to make sure it's being properly administered, and to do internal accounting on the money. Once income tax reaches the IRS, somebody monitors where it actually goes from there, right?
3) Can anybody point me in the direction of rational discussion of how exactly anybody thinks this would be good for individual taxpayers? Yeah, it's a consumption based tax, and therefore people who don't buy a lot would pay less than those who buy millions of dollars worth of goods in a year. But 23%?!
I for one do NOT want to be faced with buying a hundred bucks of taxable goods, and pay an additional 23 bucks on top of that, plus whatever state and regional sales taxes are applicable.
(I reminded Tom that this would whallop states like his native FL, which have no income tax, in preference to relying on sales tax for state funding. He shrugged and said that was the states' decision to make. Sigh.)
Ok, enough debating politics and requesting aid in proper citations for same. I need to get cracking on this week's coursework. God knows I can't get it done when the Zodlings are awake.
I still think the tax as described, regardless of nomenclature, is a bad idea, but I'll pester y'all to help me with suggested sources when I can form the question properly.
***
I have been hitting mute during commercial breaks one hell of a lot this weekend, and will probably be doing it more and more between now and Election Day. Doesn't matter which side's ads are airing. I'm already sick of them. I already know I'm voting Democrat in every elected office for which I am elegible to do so. (I don't do straight-party-ticket, but there aren't any reasonable Republicans running in my area right now.) And I already know I'm voting HELL NO on Amendments 60, 61, and proposition 101. They're changes to the tax code, and to how local and state government can borrow money, which on the surface sound like "Yay, lower tax bill!". But come out to "Boo, sharp decreases in the main funding source for important services, and in the ability of government to take on ANY kind of loan, such as those for major capital improvements to the water supply, AND causing land owned by utilities to be subject to property tax, which will get passed on to us as higher utility rates."
I also know I am voting HELL NO on the granting personhood to fertilized eggs amendment. Same thing was attempted a few years before we moved here, and got soundly defeated then. If I had the money in my bank account, I'd be throwing it at Planned Parenthood's get out the vote efforts. Sigh.
Anyway. The incessant ads, frequently misleading, always annoying, are not doing anything to alter my vote. Reading the local paper's analysis of various issues did. Clearer, cleaner, and with less vitriol or droning voice saying "Candidate Smith: Bad for X. Bad for Y. And BAD for Region Candidate Seeks to Represent". The mute button is one of humanity's more useful inventions.
One of the subjects harped on most in the Colorado Senate race is Ken Buck's support for the Value Added Tax, which is a proposed national sales tax of 23%.
Yes, that's not a typo. 23%.
Once we're all done clutching our wallets.... Davner is fond of complaining that the ads fail to mention the proposed VAT is intended to replace federal income tax, not come in addition to it. (Which is true, they make no mention of this.) He thinks, if used that way, it would be awesome, and would eliminate the need for the IRS. He says if it were implemented as desired by those Democrats who propose it, it would be on top of all other taxation, and be an abomination. But he likes the idea of not having to spend four hours doing our taxes online, and thinks it would fund the federal government adequately without unnecessary spending on things like the IRS.
So. Three questions.
1) Are there, in fact, Democrats pushing for a national VAT? If so, are they intending it to be an extra tax, rather than a replacement tax? For that matter, are Republicans really intending to use it solely as a replacement tax?
2) Would this really obviate the need for the IRS?
My gut says no. The government would need some sort of agency to collect and account for all the money, just as with federal income tax. Davner insists this would not be true, because it would be collected at the time of every elegible purchase, and done by the local businesses, and the government wouldn't need to get involved. I pointed out that back in VA, the local tv stations did regular investigations to see if local businesses were correctly administering local sales taxes, and contacting the stores to complain if they weren't. (Food items not elegible for sales tax were the chief culprits.) Also, the local government had a branch specifically designed to monitor sales tax administration by businesses.
It seems clear to me that the federal government would also need to monitor businesses, to make sure it's being properly administered, and to do internal accounting on the money. Once income tax reaches the IRS, somebody monitors where it actually goes from there, right?
3) Can anybody point me in the direction of rational discussion of how exactly anybody thinks this would be good for individual taxpayers? Yeah, it's a consumption based tax, and therefore people who don't buy a lot would pay less than those who buy millions of dollars worth of goods in a year. But 23%?!
I for one do NOT want to be faced with buying a hundred bucks of taxable goods, and pay an additional 23 bucks on top of that, plus whatever state and regional sales taxes are applicable.
(I reminded Tom that this would whallop states like his native FL, which have no income tax, in preference to relying on sales tax for state funding. He shrugged and said that was the states' decision to make. Sigh.)
Ok, enough debating politics and requesting aid in proper citations for same. I need to get cracking on this week's coursework. God knows I can't get it done when the Zodlings are awake.
