In the interests of fighting ignorance, one LJ post at a time...

[sethrak]

We got quizzed on this at the baptism class for parents a couple weeks ago, and I was the only one in the room besides the deacon who knew about this. (I actually had a not-quite-argument with one mother who didn't believe me.) And it came up again in part of a mock_the_stupid thread. So I'm spreading it on a little farther. Besides, this is the Christmas season, so it's relevant. Some of it's Catholics-only, some of it's Christianity-wide.

So, here we go:

Immaculate conception: Does not refer to Jesus' conception. Refers to Mary, his mother, having been conceived without original sin, in order to be a fit vessel to bear God's only begotten son. This does not interfere with Jesus "being like us in all ways but sin", as the lady I argued with at that class insisted, because she still committed sins. She was just exempt from original sin, that which we all bear because Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.

Virgin birth: Does refer to Jesus' conception. Mary had not "known man" before she conceived Jesus, and she remained a virgin until his birth. After his birth... brings us to the next point.

"Blessed Mary, ever-virgin": This comes up a lot in Catholic practice. I'm reasonably sure this is a Catholicism-only concept. (geoduck? Anyone else?) We (and by 'we' I mean the Catholic Church as a whole, not necessarily me) believe that Mary remained a virgin her entire life, and that she and Joseph maintained a celibate marraige. So, no siblings for Jesus, not in accepted Catholic canon. (Anybody using the movie Dogma as their source for theological knowledge needs to be bapped across the head with a cluebat. Excellent movie, though. The Catholics who got in such a snit over it clearly had no senses of humor.)
The m_t_s thread I mentioned above had a few posters mention a theory that Jesus may have had step-brothers, from a previous marriage of Joseph, thus explaining the references to a couple of apostles as Jesus' "brothers", but I never heard of that before and doubt it's canonical in any faith.
Personally, I have trouble with the doctrine of Mary's eternal virginity. I just don't see the point of it. No priest or theologian has ever explained its purpose to me either; just said things along the lines of "It's a mystery of faith, but we still believe". Mary and Joseph having a normal sexual marital relationship, as far as I can see, in no way detracts from the wonder and miracle of Christ's conception, birth, and sacrifice for our sins. Maybe I just missed that day in catechism class? ::shrug::

Side note, but also something I argued about with the lady who didn't know what immaculate conception really meant: John the Baptist was related to Jesus. His mother was Elizabeth, Mary's cousin. It's mentioned first during Gabriel's trip to tell Mary she's been chosen as Jesus' mother. As proof that what he says is true, he tells her that her cousin Elizabeth, who was believed barren, is now several months pregnant. Mary visits Elizabeth and finds out it's true. She stays with Elizabeth until her cousin gives birth, and Elizabeth names her son John. Later on, when Jesus goes to the river Jordan to be baptised by John the Baptist, he's mentioned as being Jesus' cousin. (Hmmm. I suppose Dogma's concept of the Last Zion could be true, then if John had had children.... just not the exact way the movie had it.... Gah. I've been in fandom too long if I'm thinking up concepts for Biblical fanfic....)

Speaking of theology and baptism class... Mark's baptism will be this Saturday, Dec. 9th, 11 am. ^_^ Godmothers will be my mom and my aunt Lori. Ms. Spencer, the Langley parish's pastoral coordinator, says that if she can't dredge up anyone with free time to be their proxies, she'll attend and be the proxy. There will be a photo post. Dav sold his fancy digital camera, but the smaller one he bought's nearly as good, and he's played with it enough to be pretty proficient with it. I expect the photos to turn out well.

Comments

[geoduck.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's Catholicism only. There's no official Mormon doctrine on Mary's post-Jesus-birth virginity, but I think it's generally assumed that Jesus was not Mary's only child, just her oldest.

[danceswithelvis.livejournal.com]

What I remember from going to some Baptist churches before switching to Catholicism...

"Mary was the virgin chick who gave birth to Jesus."

And that was about it on her.